Fable people vs Fallout people
In a year with two well reviewed, successful, AAA console RPGs, I've noticed an interesting phenomenom: There are "Fable 2" people and there are "Fallout 3" people and rarely do the twain meet. Sure, lots of us respect both games, but I have yet to meet a single person who loves and has invested dozens of hours in them both.
Despite coming from the same genre, they've very different games in all sorts of ways. Which is why everyone I know, for one reason or another, is either a "Fable 2" person or a "Fallout 3" person. Why is that? I thought it would be interesting to have two writers who respect both games but find themselves drawn to one much more than the other discuss their differences.
I'm the "Fable 2" person and Variety's ace reviewer Chris Dahlen (who can also be found at his own Save the Robot blog) is our "Fallout 3" person. Here's us going at it.
The "Fable 2" guy -- Ben Fritz
Five or six hours into “Fallout 3,” I glanced at the bottom
of the screen and realized something: I didn’t know what almost anything on the
HUD means. “Cnd?” “AP?” The two numbers with a slash between them? The multiple
markers, some flashing, on my compass? What the hell is all that?
I’m sure it’s my fault. I probably didn’t pay enough attention in Vault 101 (maybe I shouldn’t have cheated on that test) and I could obviously look at the “help” menu or the manual.
What’s interesting isn’t that I didn’t know what all the numbers mean, but that I just didn’t care. Fundamentally, I’m not interested in engaging with dozens of different statistics. I don’t want to spend time boosting my action points, distributing my experience, or selecting perks and S.P.E.C.I.A.L. attributes. But I have to, because my character is essentially a collection of points that I’ve assigned.
"Fable 2" is more my style, because your character develops not by deliberate choice, but through the consequences of your actions. I like using magic, so I become a skilled magician. I like stealing stuff and killing shopkeepers, so even if I would prefer to be loved, I'm known as a scoundrel. I spend a lot of time as a blacksmith, so I'm loaded. I like going on quests to earn acclaim and commissioning statues of myself, so I'm quite the hottie (though my wife and husband get kinda jealous).
There’s no doubt “Fallout 3” contains some incredible
moments, more
impressive and meaningful than anything in “Fable 2.” I haven’t
even seen some of the best stuff yet, but my eyes were glued to the screen when
I blew up Megaton and I got a thrill out of seeing the ghouls I let loose
overrun Tenpenny Tower
The problem is that most of “Fallout 3” is the tedium in between: Conversations with dead faced Wasteland denizens in which I’m just trying to get them to give me information I need (My dog in “Fable 2” has more personality than any of the people in “Fallout 3”); difficult combat in which, once you run out of action points (yes, I figured out what they are) you’re stuck in a sub-par first person shooter; scrounging for ammo and supplies, managing my huge inventory, and worrying about radiation or drug addiction every time I use something I need. The overall experience is cold and dull. I’m just struggling to get to that next cool moment and worrying that if I make a wrong choice, I could miss one (no wonder “Fallout 3” players are constantly saving).
“Hang on,” the “Fallout” fans may be saying. “Isn’t
preparation and stark choices and difficult combat a realistic version of life
post-apocalypse?” Hell yes it is. But at that rate, why not make us dig holes
and collect toilet paper to deal with our irradiated feces? I play games to be
engaged and amazed, not reminded of how tedious and tenuous life can be.
“Fable 2” is realistic more through results than actions.
Unlike the real world, you’ve always got something interesting and cool to do.
But unlike “Fallout 3,” you have to face the consequences in the way people
treat you, the resources you have, the skills you’ve developed, and so on.
“Fallout’s” consequences are much more linear. You can do something or you
can’t. You go down one parth of a branching script or another. In “Fable 2,” they’re
dynamic. Which is why when I describe my hero and my version of
Personally, I’ll take phony, vibrant and dynamic over real,
dull and scripted any day. Artificial as it is, “Fable 2” puts choices – and
choices are what an RPG is all about after all – in the context of a living,
breathing world. I know lots of numbers are being crunched, but they’re mostly
out of sight and mind as I live my life and face the consequences. In “Fallout
3,” most of the choices come on the Pip Boy or in conversation menus, with time
frozen, and the results are all scripted. I just can’t live my virtual life
that way. Which is probably why I still haven’t figured out what “cnd” is.
The "Fallout 3" guy -- Chris Dahlen
But the whole game IS about finding five more bullets in some rusty tin can! And then realizing you need six to take out the next radscorpion! What's more exciting than that?
I hear all your points about "Fallout 3," and I agree: it's the polar opposite of "Fable II." Peter Molyneux wanted to make "Fable II" enchanting and most of all, accessible; you'll recall the letter he sent to reviewers, asking us to find a non-gamer and bring them along for the ride. You rarely break a sweat, so the skills and stats - basically, the numbers - don't matter much. You can pass time any way you want, but the game has a big, rich story that's easy to latch onto. I was actually more impressed than you by those ten years in the Spire: they felt heavy and awful, whereas in "Fallout 3," I would have been grinding my security skill so I could pick the locks and skedaddle. "Fable II" is a children's storybook; "Fallout 3" is like breaking into a junkyard.
On the other hand, junkyards are fun. Like you, I'm not a numbers wonk. I'm a lazy generalist and a sloppy RPG player. But I appreciate that "Fallout 3" pushed my nose right up against the details of my situation. Exploring a cave could cost me precious ammo and medkits. Wandering into that elementary school might lead me to resources - or get me killed. This is true in any game, but with its slow pace and constant scarcity, "Fallout 3" made me pay attention to little details that I would normally brush over.
Same goes for the moral compass. I admire "Fable II" for moving past the basic "are you a really nice guy, or a really bad one?" dynamic, by making you sacrifice to do the right thing. But Fallout 3 was much subtler. I rarely felt like I was doing something heroic or villainous. I never ran into a simple, "Do you want to help the orphan or keep the candy for yourself?" scenario. Most of the time, I was waffling over small questions - like, should I be a dick to someone who won't do what I want? If I'm nice, are they going to push me around? If I'm mean, then jeez, will that cost me some ammo later on? This is a lawless place, and nobody's hanging around waiting to give you a medal.
And that put the big scenes in a whole different light. Late in the main storyline I found myself in Paradise Falls, which had been turned into a slaver camp. I'd run into some slaves earlier, out in the wasteland. I tried to unhook their explosive collars. One of them blew up. (I should've studied more science.) So I knew about the game's slavery, but I couldn't do anything about it - until I found that town. The only reason to go in is to free two or three slaves, and you can do that any way you like.
I chose to barge in guns a blazing and kill every single person who was there of their free will. I stacked up bodies. I unlocked cages. And when it was done, I didn't get anything special for my decision. Unlike Fable II, I didn't get halo points floating by my head for every person I rescued. I wasn't doing it for the game; I did it because I wanted to.
Funny thing is though, Fable II did a better job at one thing: describing my place in the world. I was immersed in the game, but I can't say I felt like I was "role-playing." While I know you can play Fallout 3 from a third-person perspective, it's an awkward way to play. That means you spend 99% of the time not looking at your avatar, which was a real waste after the sheriff's duster and chic blue haircut I gave mine. And while I met a lot of fascinating people (and ghouls, and androids), I don't remember much of the chit-chat. The conversations are skimpy, and the options don't reflect much personality: instead of thinking about how to persuade someone, you focus on making that successful roll on speechcraft. If I could improve one thing, it would be the non-player character interactions. Even in the wastelands, the characters should be more interesting than my ammo count.





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I really wasn't happy with first Fable, it were no challenge at all in it in my oppinion. That my hero
could get scars and grow old was the only thing that
felt bit new.
It lasted about 48 hours of my first time playing it. After spending sometime with Fable 2 in the game store
I decided it wouldn't come with me home.
So, I went home without a new game, a few days later I
returned to the game store and the guy working there
sugguested I should try out Fallout 3, at the point I
had left Vault 101 for the very first time, I decided to buy it and continue the adventure in this post-apocalyptic wasteland.
Some say it's quite hard to find Ammo in Fallout 3... I find it rather easy, been using my trusty ol' 10mm pistol
for 10 levels now and carrying 932 10mm bullets with me. It
almost feel too easy to get ammo to any of the weapons
in the game since my pockets is filled with bullets, mines
and rockets.
I don't really feel that being addicted to any drug is
much of a set back either, been addicted to Buffout and
Jet for 6 levels now.
And I have to agree that the NPCs really lack personality.
Even though those few things were a bit of a minus, I do
think Fallout 3 is a great game, Though I'd love to get a
big fat cigar and have a nasty scar over the left eye as I
go all pew pew on the Raiders in Evergreen Mills while having Agatha playing on the radio and feeling all bad in my Naughty Nightware.
I almost wish I could dual wield two 10mm pistols.
Posted by: Ameki | December 23, 2008 at 03:36 AM
I haven't played Fable 2 but found the first one to be an RPG for little kids... that said, I played a while on Fallout 3 and found the whole thing to be a soulless, depressing experience.
Posted by: The Recursion King | December 22, 2008 at 08:30 AM
All opinions aside (okay, okay, I did enjoy both games), you can't explicitly kill children in Fallout 3. Even if you chose to blow up Megaton, I believe I read that those kids appear elsewhere in the game, having conveniently escaped. I can't find the source, so feel free to call bullshit on me if you know otherwise.
Posted by: Yocto Yotta | December 21, 2008 at 03:11 AM
I really can't say which one is better because i haven't played Fable 2 at all, but I'm 35+ hours into Fallout 3(and there are still 10 side quests that i haven't done) and i can honestly say that it's one of the best games i've ever played. It's up there with Bioshock and Half-life 2. A sweeping epic that's gonna be really hard to top. Depending on how the downloadable content goes(I hear that the expansion that comes out in march will change the ending of the game), I'll be ready to call it Best Videogame Ever.
Posted by: KaL V2 | December 19, 2008 at 07:28 PM
I did a 3000 word review of Fable. It's on my blog. See link above. I just finished a full play through of Fallout 3, leveling up to the maximum 20. I definately put more time into Fallout 3 but that's largely because there was more time to be had. Now, I'm in RPG fatigue but I can honestly say that I liked both games relatively equally, though for different reasons.
Posted by: Scott Gunsaullus | December 19, 2008 at 06:55 AM
Hi. I'm the mythical guy who likes both Fallout 3 and Fable II. We really do exist. Both games do certain things really well and both drop the ball in places, but I don't think I have to pledge allegiance to either.
I spent over 100 hours on my first playthrough of F3. Loved S.P.E.C.I.A.L., loved V.A.T.S., loved the way they stayed true to so much of what made the series great while advancing it to the current state of the art. But my favorite thing was the world itself. The main story was the least of my concerns. I'm sure 75 of those 100+ hours were spent simply as a virtual tourist, seeing the sights, scavenging for ammo and decapitating the odd raider or super mutant.
As Mike points out, the game lets you play it how you want to. I poured points into being a sneaky, brainy sniper and F3 was more happy to let me solve problems from far off with a bullet or up close with my wits. I wish the same were true in Fable II, as I'm trying to be a ranged specialist but bandits keep dropping out of trees and surrounding me.
Still, with about 20 hours under my belt, I'm quite charmed by Albion and the very silly people who inhabit it. The action combat is fun, and I'm amassing a nice nest egg through blacksmithing and real estate speculation. The character interactions are a lot more lifelike than in those in F3, which makes the whole word seem that more more dynamic. On the other hand, the idea that I'm doing most of my communication via dancing and farting takes away from the immersion - I don't feel like I'm playing a character charming the local barmaid, I feel like I'm pushing a button to make an indicator move a few more pixels to the right.
I guess what I'm saying is that I love spending time in both worlds and I'm getting something different out of each. Anyone who thinks either game is flawless is a hopeless fanboy, and anyone who can't appreciate both is missing out on some of the most fun you can have on a console in 2008.
Lastly, Ben: if you don't know what CND is, you're probably not repairing your weapons. And if you're playing it like a FPS and not using VATS early and often, you're missing most of the fun of combat.
Posted by: SR | December 18, 2008 at 10:00 PM
I like my character upgrading by points, instead of actions.
In fable 1, my character started developing in to a close fighting sword guy, when I'd wanted to be a ranged arrow and magic user - I just kept running in to enemies who were close to me, and the choice was out of my hands.
Assigning points lets me build the way I want to build, rather than the way enemies have appeared to me.
Posted by: Mike Stein | December 18, 2008 at 06:59 PM
Ok. So I've recovered the Declaration of Independence, watched the sun rise and set over the Washington Monument fountain from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, used the dish from the lunar lander to repair a radio tower, convinced a robot who thought he was the 2nd signer of the DI that I was Thomas Jefferson, framer of the DI, and then killed a super mutant with a rifle used by Abraham Lincoln himself. Oh yeah, I launched 3 nukes from SAT-COM too.. end of debate.
I'm 70 plus hours into the good campaign, 23 hours into the evil one, and I haven't even touched the main story line.
Plus, somebody here said they killed some kids in Fallout and that's why it was a better game.
Q. what's even better than killing kids?
A. telling one you've found him a nice foster home and then slapping an exploding collar on him and selling him into slavery to Eulogy Jones in Paradise Falls.
3-dog couldn't have said it any better.
Post-apocalyptia all the way, chilllllll-dren!
Posted by: Nick Creature | December 18, 2008 at 06:19 PM
I am about 50 hours deep into Fallout 3, being a sucker for whimsically brutal post-apocalyptica, but my heart belongs to Fable 2.
I'm only about 4-5 hours in and I feel it is a better experience, if not at the very least, it having the Superior Canine Sidekick of 2008.
Peter Molyneux, this almost makes up for the crushing disappointment of Black & White. ALMOST.
Posted by: Charlie Chu | December 18, 2008 at 05:41 PM
FALLOUT 3. I played 30 minutes of FABLE 2, got tremendously bored and haven't picked it up again. I have played 26 hours of FALLOUT 3 and can't wait to spend some of my holiday getting back to it and reaching level 20. Why? Put the most simply, ANY console RPG is dwarfed in comparison to even the most basic RPG on a PC. The graphics (and gameplay and mechanics) of a game like DEUS EX blow both these things out of the water and that game is EIGHT YEARS OLD! And in the world of PC RPG's, the flights of fantasy genre has been thoroughly (and expertly) explored these last eight years. Why on earth would I ever want to play amongst the frikkin trolls and goblins of Fable when I can play amongst the frikkin trolls and Nightelves (still the gayest character type ever designed by anyone) of World of Warcraft? I mean, what the shit is up with reviewers for refusing to acknowledge that these games (with franchises behind them) are operating on serious sub-par graphics engines? And don't tell me they're restricted by the hardware when games like Gears of War, Assasin's Creed, Prince of Persia and MGS 4 are out there?
Saying all that, I like Fallout cause of it's post-apocalyptic wasteland setting and because in my first 30 minutes I was presented with a challenge (followed by many more) whereas in the first 30 minutes of Fable I was presented with the ability to reprimand my fucking dog for dropping a deuce on my lawn. It's a game…it should be challenging you retards.
Also also, I got to kill kids in Fallout. I couldn't do that in Fable (or at least in the 30 minutes I played the game).
Posted by: Gutrbal | December 18, 2008 at 04:51 PM